This all is primarily in response to a forum where alt- and fetish work were lumped together and described as being the same or interchangeable.
The first was a simple and quick response but then after a reply, I realized that I wasn't clear enough. Since i took the time to write it, I figured I might as well keep it in my own blog too although some bits are edited out for clarity.
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i don't associate fetish with alt-modeling at all.
alt-modeling usually denotes work involving alternative fashion and lifestyles which in turn are influenced by a variety of things including the sub-genres of goth, punk, mod, grunge, etc. These sub-cultures of music styles are the primary influential source for the fashion and styling used in alt-modeling.
fetish imagery (even fetish fashion imagery to a certain extent) is meant to trigger a sexual response. it is not about a social movement or reaction to social conditions in the world. Certain items frequently associated as being fetishistic have been used in various forms of media (tv shows, films, music videos) but they did not spring into being because of this use.
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(in response to why my definition might differ from someone in the central US) I don't know about San Francisco per se, although I'm from the area, I usually spend more time on the road within/out of the US. It's not necessarily the location that allows for the distinction between "alt" and "fetish", but the people one comes into contact with. I would say that in more populated areas where more people actively work in fetish or alt industries (not just models and/or photographers but also designers, writers, educators), then one is more likely to come into contact to those involved with one or the other as well as those that enjoy delving further into knowing about either genre.
There are a ton of new people that have "discovered" alt and fetish imagery in the past few years and quite a few have decided to jump into it. But most don't take an active hand in researching the history of the various sub-divisions of either theme. Some of them even think certain popular recent music stars 'discovered' fetishism and bdsm because of some inability to look beyond more than five or ten years into the past. Most enjoy looking at the highly stylized and fashionable images of made-up and well-fit models but they definitely don't think of Atomage or Justice magazine (which was in publication before Westwood opened her shop). [in response to vivienne westwood being a point where alt- and fetish began as a merged entitiy.]
What I find incredibly frustrating is that most people seem to miss the point entirely, including self-proclaimed fetish photographers and models. It's so easy to label an image fetish because the model is seen wearing a latex or pvc dress when the image is anything far from being an actual turn-on to a fetishist - or anyone for that matter.
For the forum, yes, I understand that they're [fetish and alt-] lumped together and it's easier for most people to discuss them that way because of whatever reason (simplicity, laziness, ignorance, or just because). But this also ends up perpetuating the idea that alt-modeling and fetish-modeling are the same thing and practically interchangeable terms. Many of the people that I know that work in fetish professionally would not think to label themselves as alt-models. I certainly do not and at times I find it insulting to be called an alt-model.
I work in an area that embraces sexuality and allows for individuals to bring their personal kinks to the surface to be displayed openly for all to see. It's about delving internally and bringing forth normally hidden sexual proclivities.
What I think I did not make clear in my initial post is that while alt- work does sometimes include elements generally associated with fetishism or even BDSM, it is still a echo to musical trends of a period of time which are generally influenced by reactionary social/cultural/political upheavals. But sometimes alt- is also simply about going against the norm for the sake of just being different - kind of like that phase one goes through after too many arguments with the parents.
Simply put, "alt-" is based in lifestyle trends. Not that all trends are bad, but few are everlasting no matter how influential they may be. Even I might have claimed myself to be goth at one period of time and my father was into the hippie movement for a while. But to categorize my sexuality as being akin to a fad is disparaging and disrespectful.
I discussed this with Michelle Olley years ago, when she was at Skin Two, and we were both trying to promote having models with unusual haircuts and tattoos and dramatic makeup and such in fetish areas. And meeting with resistance. Looking punk or goth-industrial or whatever and showing up to the BDSM party was not always the way to elicit the friendliest welcome in those days. The handcuffs on my leather jacket at the time were fully functional and one of the reasons I founded Blue Blood was precisely to celebrate an aesthetic which resonated with me sexually. 17 years later, I am less impressed by a daring hairstyle than I once was, partly because it takes less courage to rock one in a post-internet world, but I'm still enough of a fetishist there that I will look at two people with the same basic level of appeal and think the one with the mohawk is way hotter.
Something which troubles me deeply is that a lot of people have reinterpreted alt to be where girls (not women) who do not make the grade can put on wigs and LARP like they are modeling. These are generally girls who do not want to have to develop their minds or even their cooking skills, but they do not want to hit the gym either. So they call themselves altmodels and you are supposed to like them for their looks alone, without requiring them to look good.
Certain corporate players in the marketplace have aggressively attempted to de-sexualize alt. But a few more loathsome humans in the overall society doesn't make liking music and subculture-influenced looks not a fetish.
I think the problem with looking punk or goth or industrial in certain circles also left people with a prejudged impression as to attitude and bearing. And you know how some people, usually younger ones, end up overcompensating by acting out tougher, louder, etc to fit the stereotype of their chosen sub-culture. I think now even still, although they might be more accepted, most of the BDSM parties I've attended usually don't consist of many 'alternative' groups. (i'm referring mostly to those parties that take place in fancy dungeon settings or mansions).
Fetish parties in the US, on the other hand, pretty much mean a huge crowd of bodies dressed in black with goth, industrial, etc. music pumping through the speakers.
Which also reminds me of another discussion I had with some people in the past. With all the different styles of music out there that have their associated alt-fashion counterparts: Why in the hell - How in the hell, did goth/industrial (and all the sub-genres) get to be the music played at a fetish party?! Of course in Europe and other countries it's different. There one is greeted with the numbing (my opinion) beats of hardhouse and the thump thump oontz oontz sounds (that leave me deaf).
One DJ attempted to argue the subject with me saying that the rap music I listened to wasn't 'Fetish' at all. But then, when listening to the lyrics which vary in subjective, objective, and misogynistic levels, I realized that it could be considered very fetishistic-centric - especially with all that talk about big asses and breasts. (and pimps and hos and money and blowjobs and skeet skeet skeet til the sweat drip from my balls!)
The first BDSM gatherings I went to actually didn't involve a majority of younger individuals that associated with a music-centric group of people. But instead, they were normal looking deviants - that is to say, those that could easily change their clothes and fit in. But the regular clubs I did hang out in were generally packed with those in black with white face - myself included at times. But I could also change, much as now, to blend in. I think I prefer it that way and I still do. (Yes I know I am bald, but not when I travel or go out in the day. I don't want that kind of attention).
As far as the change in the interpretation of alt-, I find it hilarious! It is troubling, but then as I have mentioned in other rants, I don't have time to waste on amateurs. I figure if I was able to sort things out myself, then they should be able to as well. In any case, it's girls and boys too. I love the ones that slap on a couple of tattoos and all of a sudden they think they look good - and some girls may think that too - but they haven't changed at all in any way, nor have they gained any skills (in modeling or otherwise). And chances are, their personalities remain lackluster and bland - "but look! I have a cool band around my arm! i'm a rocker! now i can get laid! RAWR"
I do realize that tattoos and piercings and the other associated elements of alt-cultures are fetishised, therefore models bearing such things could obviously be called fetish models. But more often than not, people lump it together without attempting to determine what an image is attempting to portray. It all depends on the intent of the photographer and it could simply be a portrait of a model with a tattoo, for example, or perhaps it could be a sexually charged image featuring a model showing off her tattoo in an alluring way.
Personally although I do like tattoos or piercings, I don't have a fetish for either - and when I say I don't have a fetish for something I usually mean I don't need or want a thing around in order to get off. I wonder how many models out there that say they have a fetish for latex or tattoos actually use those items regularly when they have sex...
(lol @ the idea of skinning someone just to have the tattooed part of flesh to get of on!!!)
Please write more things such as this. I love your insight into a world I can only poke on occasion. And you always bring up things I never thought of.
THANKYOU! Finally. I am concerned that you had to place this post on the forum in the first place..
Though I celebrate fetish work, I am not a fetish model. I don't like to call myself an alternative model either (see Lemmy's "alternative to what?" speech), but it is easier to catergorise myself that way. I constantly get asked - even halfway through a shoot - to do fetish work. When I refuse, a lot of people are taken aback, as if it's the most bizarre thing to ever say to them. Fine, there is a link between some alternative styles and fetish in actual people's lives, but that is not guarunteed. They don't HAVE to go hand in hand in anyone's life and it's stereotypically ignorant to think so.
great journal, I've argued the different with people alot. Not everyone who is alt may be into fetish, and you certainly don't have to be alt to be into fetish. I personally don't look particularily alt, only a handful of piercings, no tattoos, and my hair is currently my natural hair colour, and I've been told I'm not 'alt' looking enough to be alt, I tend to think of it as more about taste and trends in music and culture and art rather than simply having some tattoos or pink hair. Those are the current alt trends, not what alt is. 8 years ago when I was 14 it was hugely baggy jeans, unwashed hair and skateboards, now its more rockabilly (though apparently my love of country most certainly makes me not alt even though rockabilly is popular!) I really don't like seeing models get a couple of tattoos and call them self alt, or not do that and realise they don't fit the high fashion standard so they can go grab some cheap ass latex and be a fetish model, cause you know, wearing latex obviously makes you a fetish model *shakes head* I try to describe myself as a 'fetish, alt and fetish fashion' photographer, because someone in latex isn't necessarily a fetish image, I like to call it fetish fashion as thats what its doing, showing the fashion side of fetish, not necessarily the fetish itself.
I think some people forget that when they're describing alt- they forget that not all sub-genres of music that have influenced fashion also include things like coloured hair, spikes, tattoos, or even piercings. Some trends/movements flagrantly display such things but not all did and even so, at the time they remained completely anti-establishment.
The styles I'm speaking of include grunge, mod, and even hippies.
Even tho rockabilly has had a revival in the past few decades, the thing that some people seem to forget is that rockabilly is part country as well (hillbilly music = southern country). One of the things that I find odd sometimes is that the people that also dress the part in other countries are also sometimes super anti-USA. OK, it's kind of funny to me considering they also go out and get tattoos wholly based on popular and established theme of Americana.
Who the heck forgets that country is a huge influence on rockabilly?
Oh wait, it just occurred to me what forum this conversation originally started on. Does it start with an M and end with who-the-heck-thinks-that?
Obviously, when I started publishing in 1992, nobody was using the term alt. The gents who coined the phrase to refer to the unusual-hair-ink-spikes-etc. genre were still about a decade away from putting the term out there. I don't care for the term, but, from a niche perspective, I assume that is where what much of what I do is going to be shelved. I don't like the term, but the areas in which I feel it is inapplicable are not ones where it would necessarily be inapplicable to other creative projects, which would be on the same shelf.
There is always going to be a separation between genre in general and artistic expression in specific. Or at least there should be.
How would you categorize a site like Rubber Dollies? Alt or fetish?
I wonder how much (if any) of the confusion is sparked by a basic lack of understanding of what "alt" means in the context of modeling. Literally, fetish is an alternative (alt!) expression of sexuality. Many who aren't particularly familiar with the various subcultures that have been lumped together as "alt" take the term quite literally. If all you know about "alt" is that it's an alternative to mainstream, then fetish would fit.
totally true, but then I think one could probably assume (yes, i know:a.s.s.u.m.e.) that from the entirety of my explanation/blog/rant, that my definition of alt- is inclined to the definitions that sprang from alt- music trends of the past which i feel came before people starting throwing the word alternative around for everything and anything (present day: alt-greenhairedgirlswithtattooedbffs.com) - just like they do with the word fetish.
But then most that seem to lump it all together usually end up incorrectly focusing at a small group of styles, notably those with coloured hair and spikey bits poking from flesh. I mentioned above in another comment, most people don't think of hippie, grunge, or beatniks/mods. And those are just the more current and modern examples that we're familiar with - to go into more periods of time and other areas of the world would take ages!
But do you really see any alt modeling featuring those other subcultures? Just as the term has come to exclude the literal definitive of alternative, it's come to exclude most alternative youth subcultures.
And this adds nothing to the conversation, but all this talk of alternative has gotten this song stuck in my head:
This is a great post and you illustrate, as is often the case, very strong points. That said, in terms of both modeling and lifestyle I've always seemed to find myself straddling the two realms. On one hand, I'm very identified with the gothic subculture, so I do that type of modeling, attend the events, etc., and on the other, I have a deep, genuine sexual interest in corsetry, latex, restraint, etc, and have expressed that to some degree in my modeling as well as a to greater degree in my private life. And though I would never define myself as a fetish model chiefly because it's not the primary genre I model in, I've also never appreciated the label of costumed, scene-based, cult-of-personality-seeking alt-model applied to me, either. That said, I don't worry about the limbo. I do this chiefly for pleasure and as a creative outlet. I never have nor will I ever rely on it to define my image, my income, or my own identity.
For me at least, the most interesting photographic subjects (and humans) are always those who straddle multiple worlds and (for want of a better term) lifestyles.
I must have multiple legs then because I seem to straddle everything -- especially when one considers my day job as a federal investigator. At least there's little I need to hide about my modeling or lifestyle, though -- all that had to be split open in order to get my top secret. However, it was something I worried about initially. It turns out that the government doesn't really care as long as it's legal and can't be used to blackmail you (in order words, needs to be common knowledge).
When I used to live in the DC area, partly because of my mother's position, I used to be the go-to character reference for my more competent friends, so I did a number of those. A lot of people think the government is looking for someone out of a Norman Rockwell painting, as opposed to the entirely reasonable search for job candidates who sufficiently own who they are that they can be trusted with sensitive information.
I do SPIN investigations -- special interviews. Basically, when someone is getting a clearance or is getting one renewed, and something a bit off shows up on their record or even through hearsay, I go in and find out exactly what went down by talking to the subject/sources/police/records/etc. Those range from everyday DUIs and tax liens to attempted suicides and people who've been convicted of serious crimes like sexual assault. Some people really, really loathe the job because there's a huge burden of responsibility (it's almost as easy for me to perjure myself as it is for one of my subjects), there's never a goal in sight, and cases are constantly loaded on (not to mention the stress of tracking people down and confronting them about things they don't want to talk about). But I set my own schedule, it's never boring, and I never have to sit in a cubicle -- which for me is perfect.
Many people these days like to use whatever phrase seems the most hip even if it doesn't fit. Old-school, hardcore, vintage, and collector's edition have been strip-mined of their worth by those who just want to make a buck or those who just don't know any better. I hope you have more success fighting the good fight for your word than others have had with their words.
As a point of reference from one of the folks running that site, we asked for volunteers to host the "Lounge" areas. The model & photographer who agreed to work that section together are both lifestyle fetish players as well as being involved in alt (non-fetish) fashion work AND fetish photography. It was felt that trying to separate them in to totally different areas of the site would result in dead space/dead areas or role confusion, so it'd be easier/more logical to have one umbrella area and then the people running the space could steer the conversation.
Having said that, I DO agree with most of what you've said here, and with your permission we'd be DELIGHTED to host this essay on the site as either a featured article or a section in our Wiki.
If that's OK with you, please let us know & we'll get it posted & credited to you. :)
of course half the people on most model sites that say they do fetish work, well, i guess they do, but i usually set things at a different bar. (not meaning anyone specifically, just in general).
i can totally understand keeping the two in the same section. there are areas where the two overlap.
but as far as role-confusion, people should know the difference otherwise it's just going to perpetuate the blanket definitions and continue the (mostly) incorrect ideas. alt and fetish are two separate distinct lifestyle/themes and i'm pretty damn certain that most haven't been at it longer than i have been. (not a boast, just a fact).
i don't know if most of the alt/fetish models on the site are ones that work in it professionally or are there because they are fetishists (as in they use their items sexually in a major way) or just want to throw on a latex dress and play because "it's shiny" but regardless, getting them to think that alt = fetish and then have them pass it on without any thought to what they're doing sucks (because it just gives the next group of... newcomers a foundation that's based in perpetuating those ideas.
of course that said, i don't have the time to moderate a fetish forum. i usually fail as it is with the stockroom one i was supposed to run and any others i try. And all i need is to antagonize anyone - well actually i don't care about that all that much.
LOL, don't worry about antagonizing anyone. In fact, commentary like yours is EXACTLY one of the things we're HOPING for at the site. We're trying to get working pros form several market areas & genres to contribute, which's why I asked if we could use your essay. We can post it & make sure it's available on the site and cited often in that forum & the site as a whole to educate people about the difference & make sure they're clear on it.
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kumimonster's journal
